Post by chzrm3 on Mar 14, 2011 15:44:35 GMT -5
Disclaimer: I've seen all ten episodes of the show so far, and I'm pretty sure other people have. I'll try to use spoiler tags whenever I'm talking about an episode that goes beyond what the club has seen (episode 5 right now), but if I don't, please don't hate me forever! Q_Q
So yeah, Mahou Shoujo Madoka Magica. Is it brilliant? Is it evil? Is it just copying Evangelion, Higurashi, and other genre-deconstruction anime? Is it something that people will be talking about years from now, or is its popularity just a result of people demanding it be banned? What other obnoxious questions can I ask about the show before I start talking about it? Does this one count? Does God like peanut butter?
Personally, I love the show, and I think I might love it a little too much. After episode 4, I wasn't sure if I wanted to watch anymore. It seemed like it was going the same route as Higurashi, where you'd just watch a bunch of torture scenes (nails being ripped off? >_O) and the show kind of relishes its own depravity. It really seemed we were being set up for a "let's torture magic girls" sort of thing, which I really wouldn't have liked at all.
Instead, the show went in a much cooler direction. After shocking people into realizing that it wasn't your typical magic girl anime, it scaled back the violence and slaughter, and went a psychological route. From episode 5 onward, these episodes have all been about the mental duress that these girls are under, and how they each cope with it. In fact,
So yeah, it's kind of surprising. I really was expecting the deaths in this show to come out of left field every single time, but the anime actually takes the high road. Instead of getting you to cringe every couple episodes by throwing a cheap, gory death your way, you watch the characters break down mentality. In this way, you really do see their deaths coming, but it's a lot sadder and more meaningful.
That's not to say that Mami's death didn't have psychological implications. She was killed during the happiest moment of her life, that's pretty messed up.
Now episode 10 actually opens up a whole other can of worms, so here's another massive tl;dr in a spoiler tag:
So yeah, episode 10 basically solidified this anime's place in my heart as one of my favorites of all time. Even if the ending's total garbage, I'll still love it for that insane twist. In a way (omg more spoiler tags)
I've written so much already, I wanna make sure I don't drown you guys out. So what are your thoughts on the show? : D
So yeah, Mahou Shoujo Madoka Magica. Is it brilliant? Is it evil? Is it just copying Evangelion, Higurashi, and other genre-deconstruction anime? Is it something that people will be talking about years from now, or is its popularity just a result of people demanding it be banned? What other obnoxious questions can I ask about the show before I start talking about it? Does this one count? Does God like peanut butter?
Personally, I love the show, and I think I might love it a little too much. After episode 4, I wasn't sure if I wanted to watch anymore. It seemed like it was going the same route as Higurashi, where you'd just watch a bunch of torture scenes (nails being ripped off? >_O) and the show kind of relishes its own depravity. It really seemed we were being set up for a "let's torture magic girls" sort of thing, which I really wouldn't have liked at all.
Instead, the show went in a much cooler direction. After shocking people into realizing that it wasn't your typical magic girl anime, it scaled back the violence and slaughter, and went a psychological route. From episode 5 onward, these episodes have all been about the mental duress that these girls are under, and how they each cope with it. In fact,
I'm thinking back on it now, and there haven't been any more scenes like Mami's beheading, where a girl's involved in a fight and then gets killed.
Episode 5: Kyoko and Sayaka clash here, and Sayaka gets her ass kicked but it doesn't really hurt her because of her natural healing. What really bothers her is the fact that she knowingly sacrificed so much to become a mahou shoujo, and she did it so that she could help people - yet here's this other mahou shoujo who's completely selfish and only cares about herself... and Sayaka's getting annihilated by her. Still, this episode was much lighter than the previous ones, and the stuff at the end was mostly some cool action.
Episode 6: This is where things get messed up, and it has nothing to do with fighting at all. There's a potential fight, but it's interrupted when Madoka throws Sayaka's soul gem off the bridge, and the girls all realize that their souls were ripped out of their bodies when they made the contract with Kyuubee. Despite the fact that nobody gets hurt or killed, this is probably the most disturbing episode to date.
Episode 7: SO awesome. The way the battle was animated was so sick, and for a minute I really thought they were going to show Sayaka's silhouette being gutted or ripped apart. Instead she pulls through and wins the fight, so you're thinking "$#@% YEAH SAYAKA!". But, like everything in this anime, that happiness is short lived as you realize she's lost her mind. I think this was also the episode where I fell in love with the anime.
Episode 8: Kyuubee being an incubator for the corruption of souls of little girls is soooo twisted. : D
Episode 9: : ( Two girls technically die in this one, but both of them do so willingly. Sayaka had given up on humanity, which was a really perverse direction to take the character, and Kyoko was willing to sacrifice herself for the chance that, maybe, she could save Sayaka. This one was really sad, but for some reason, seeing the girls end things on their own terms didn't bother me.
Episode 5: Kyoko and Sayaka clash here, and Sayaka gets her ass kicked but it doesn't really hurt her because of her natural healing. What really bothers her is the fact that she knowingly sacrificed so much to become a mahou shoujo, and she did it so that she could help people - yet here's this other mahou shoujo who's completely selfish and only cares about herself... and Sayaka's getting annihilated by her. Still, this episode was much lighter than the previous ones, and the stuff at the end was mostly some cool action.
Episode 6: This is where things get messed up, and it has nothing to do with fighting at all. There's a potential fight, but it's interrupted when Madoka throws Sayaka's soul gem off the bridge, and the girls all realize that their souls were ripped out of their bodies when they made the contract with Kyuubee. Despite the fact that nobody gets hurt or killed, this is probably the most disturbing episode to date.
Episode 7: SO awesome. The way the battle was animated was so sick, and for a minute I really thought they were going to show Sayaka's silhouette being gutted or ripped apart. Instead she pulls through and wins the fight, so you're thinking "$#@% YEAH SAYAKA!". But, like everything in this anime, that happiness is short lived as you realize she's lost her mind. I think this was also the episode where I fell in love with the anime.
Episode 8: Kyuubee being an incubator for the corruption of souls of little girls is soooo twisted. : D
Episode 9: : ( Two girls technically die in this one, but both of them do so willingly. Sayaka had given up on humanity, which was a really perverse direction to take the character, and Kyoko was willing to sacrifice herself for the chance that, maybe, she could save Sayaka. This one was really sad, but for some reason, seeing the girls end things on their own terms didn't bother me.
So yeah, it's kind of surprising. I really was expecting the deaths in this show to come out of left field every single time, but the anime actually takes the high road. Instead of getting you to cringe every couple episodes by throwing a cheap, gory death your way, you watch the characters break down mentality. In this way, you really do see their deaths coming, but it's a lot sadder and more meaningful.
That's not to say that Mami's death didn't have psychological implications. She was killed during the happiest moment of her life, that's pretty messed up.
Now episode 10 actually opens up a whole other can of worms, so here's another massive tl;dr in a spoiler tag:
Episode 10's pretty cool if you just watch it. It's like "oh wow, this is awesome! Homura worked her way up from being a nice, cute girl into being a total badass, and since she can turn back time, it means that none of this really matters. If it ends badly, Homura will turn it back and all the girls will be back anyway!"
That's what I was thinking too when I first watched it. I felt pretty positive after the episode. It wasn't until I started thinking about it and talking it over with my brother that something interesting dawned on us.
As we know by now, the wishes that Kyuubee grants are always perverted in some way. This is because he needs to counteract the entropy of the universe by raw emotion, and if the girls get their wish and are incredibly happy, there's really no reason for them to become witches.
However, this wasn't really a factor for Madoka and friends the first go-around. They weren't alive long enough to get to the point where their wish was corrupted and they lost their sanity. In fact, when Mami died in the first timeline, Madoka wasn't even crying (as she does in just about every episode). Instead, Mami's death made her more resolute, and even though she died fighting the Waplurgis Night, she still saved her city and died happily. Remember, Madoka often says that she hates herself because she has no special talents and isn't valuable to anyone - dying in order to save her city probably meant everything to her. Put aside the fact that the city was only under attack because of Kyuubee, and that the girls emotions are being harvested as raw energy. That revelation was never made in the first time-line, not even to Homura.
But, Homura wants to go back to save her. Kyuubee's too analytical to pass up an offer for another soul (he does have his quota, after all : P) so he agrees and sends Homura back in time. This is when things start to go badly, as per the rules of the wish never being allowed to truly work out. In the second time-line, Homura tries to warn everyone about Walpurgis night, and that they'll all be killed fighting it. This causes the first real in-fighting we see amongst the girls, as Sayaka (who wasn't even a Mahou Shoujo the first time around, and was probably either recruited to help fight the Walpurgis Night as per Homura's recommendation, or was recruited as the first step of the wish being perverted) says that she doesn't trust Homura.
It seems like in every time-line, if Sayaka becomes a magical girl she becomes a witch shortly after. Even in the second time-line this happens. My guess is that Sayaka's very vulnerable because her entire wish is for a guy that she likes, so there's really no need to belabor the harvesting of her soul gem. Someone like Mami is tougher to crack - how do you make somebody who's wish was "I want to live" regret their wish? You really can't, so you might as well use them to recruit other girls. : P Kyoko's also interesting, because her wish was tainted and her father killed her entire family... yet she didn't become a witch. She just dealt with it. Anyway, that was a tangent - the point here is that when Sayaka becomes a mahou shoujo, she invariably becomes a witch.... and she ~didn't~ become a mahou shoujo in the first time-line.
This is really important, because now the girls have new information. "Kyuubee tricked us!" "We're all destined to become witches!" This wasn't even in their minds before, and we see the toll it takes when Mami goes yandere and kills Kyoko. (That scene was great, btw.) Suddenly, being a magical girl isn't as awesome and fun as they thought it was.
This is when Madoka dies unhappily. She dies regretting that she ever became a magical girl, and she asks Homura to go back and make sure she doesn't. Every time Homura goes back, things get worse, and worse, and worse, until we wind up with the arc we're at now, which is basically a living hell for these girls.
The most messed up part is looking at Madoka. In the original time-line, she was really happy. Even as she was dying, she was proud of herself and what she'd sacrificed to save her family and friends. As I said before, you can put aside the fact that Kyuubee tricked her - it didn't matter to her, cause she didn't know that. For all she knew, she had just saved the world, which was a happy thought to die with.
Now look at her in this time-line. Always crying, always hating herself, watching her friends get killed and have their minds destroyed while she just watches because Homura's made her too scared to sign the contract. Madoka's a wretched shell of her former self, and she hates herself for it. The girl in the first time-line and the girl we've been watching now might as well be two different characters.
I also think this is the reason Kyuubee can't figure out why Madoka is so strong - as Homura keeps winding back the clock for the sake of Madoka, I wonder if the energy is somehow compounding. Even if it's not, Madoka's emotional state of being right now must be pretty miserable, so maybe that's why Kyuubee's slated to get so much energy when he finally harvests her.
It really is tragic, when you look at it this way. All Homura wanted to do was save her friend. She's just like Sayaka, Kyoko and Madoka in that respect. Unlike most mahou shoujo, though, who only hurt themselves when their wish becomes spoiled, Homura's basically destroyed everyone's lives. I have a feeling that in either episode 11 or 12, Kyuubee's going to point this out and Homura, horrified when she realizes what she's done to everyone (especially Madoka) is going to freak out and become a witch. This'll not only mean that Madoka HAS to sign the contract, it also means that there's no more going back in time. So this fubar timeline is the one that we're going to be stuck with.
That's what I was thinking too when I first watched it. I felt pretty positive after the episode. It wasn't until I started thinking about it and talking it over with my brother that something interesting dawned on us.
As we know by now, the wishes that Kyuubee grants are always perverted in some way. This is because he needs to counteract the entropy of the universe by raw emotion, and if the girls get their wish and are incredibly happy, there's really no reason for them to become witches.
However, this wasn't really a factor for Madoka and friends the first go-around. They weren't alive long enough to get to the point where their wish was corrupted and they lost their sanity. In fact, when Mami died in the first timeline, Madoka wasn't even crying (as she does in just about every episode). Instead, Mami's death made her more resolute, and even though she died fighting the Waplurgis Night, she still saved her city and died happily. Remember, Madoka often says that she hates herself because she has no special talents and isn't valuable to anyone - dying in order to save her city probably meant everything to her. Put aside the fact that the city was only under attack because of Kyuubee, and that the girls emotions are being harvested as raw energy. That revelation was never made in the first time-line, not even to Homura.
But, Homura wants to go back to save her. Kyuubee's too analytical to pass up an offer for another soul (he does have his quota, after all : P) so he agrees and sends Homura back in time. This is when things start to go badly, as per the rules of the wish never being allowed to truly work out. In the second time-line, Homura tries to warn everyone about Walpurgis night, and that they'll all be killed fighting it. This causes the first real in-fighting we see amongst the girls, as Sayaka (who wasn't even a Mahou Shoujo the first time around, and was probably either recruited to help fight the Walpurgis Night as per Homura's recommendation, or was recruited as the first step of the wish being perverted) says that she doesn't trust Homura.
It seems like in every time-line, if Sayaka becomes a magical girl she becomes a witch shortly after. Even in the second time-line this happens. My guess is that Sayaka's very vulnerable because her entire wish is for a guy that she likes, so there's really no need to belabor the harvesting of her soul gem. Someone like Mami is tougher to crack - how do you make somebody who's wish was "I want to live" regret their wish? You really can't, so you might as well use them to recruit other girls. : P Kyoko's also interesting, because her wish was tainted and her father killed her entire family... yet she didn't become a witch. She just dealt with it. Anyway, that was a tangent - the point here is that when Sayaka becomes a mahou shoujo, she invariably becomes a witch.... and she ~didn't~ become a mahou shoujo in the first time-line.
This is really important, because now the girls have new information. "Kyuubee tricked us!" "We're all destined to become witches!" This wasn't even in their minds before, and we see the toll it takes when Mami goes yandere and kills Kyoko. (That scene was great, btw.) Suddenly, being a magical girl isn't as awesome and fun as they thought it was.
This is when Madoka dies unhappily. She dies regretting that she ever became a magical girl, and she asks Homura to go back and make sure she doesn't. Every time Homura goes back, things get worse, and worse, and worse, until we wind up with the arc we're at now, which is basically a living hell for these girls.
The most messed up part is looking at Madoka. In the original time-line, she was really happy. Even as she was dying, she was proud of herself and what she'd sacrificed to save her family and friends. As I said before, you can put aside the fact that Kyuubee tricked her - it didn't matter to her, cause she didn't know that. For all she knew, she had just saved the world, which was a happy thought to die with.
Now look at her in this time-line. Always crying, always hating herself, watching her friends get killed and have their minds destroyed while she just watches because Homura's made her too scared to sign the contract. Madoka's a wretched shell of her former self, and she hates herself for it. The girl in the first time-line and the girl we've been watching now might as well be two different characters.
I also think this is the reason Kyuubee can't figure out why Madoka is so strong - as Homura keeps winding back the clock for the sake of Madoka, I wonder if the energy is somehow compounding. Even if it's not, Madoka's emotional state of being right now must be pretty miserable, so maybe that's why Kyuubee's slated to get so much energy when he finally harvests her.
It really is tragic, when you look at it this way. All Homura wanted to do was save her friend. She's just like Sayaka, Kyoko and Madoka in that respect. Unlike most mahou shoujo, though, who only hurt themselves when their wish becomes spoiled, Homura's basically destroyed everyone's lives. I have a feeling that in either episode 11 or 12, Kyuubee's going to point this out and Homura, horrified when she realizes what she's done to everyone (especially Madoka) is going to freak out and become a witch. This'll not only mean that Madoka HAS to sign the contract, it also means that there's no more going back in time. So this fubar timeline is the one that we're going to be stuck with.
So yeah, episode 10 basically solidified this anime's place in my heart as one of my favorites of all time. Even if the ending's total garbage, I'll still love it for that insane twist. In a way (omg more spoiler tags)
it's almost like Kyuubee is good. According to Kyuubee's original design, none of these problems ever arose. And let's be honest here, the dude is fighting against the theory of entropy. That's pretty awesome, and even if you aren't a cold, logical thinker like he is, you've got to admit that ensuring the future of the universe is a pretty important and admirable goal. : P Granted, his manipulation of the girls is sinister, but I don't think he sees it that way. In his mind, if he doesn't do this, the universe ends. So the choice, to him, is obvious.
Don't get me wrong, the guy's a bastard. Just when I was coming around to him, he totally tricked Kyoko into believing that Sayaka could be saved... and he didn't even do it to harvest her energy, he just did it so that he could get Madoka to sign the contract. This basically means that Kyoko put up with all of this for nothing, which is pretty cruel. But again, in Kyuubee's mind, it isn't "nothing" if it gives him a source of energy that can keep his planet going for years.
Don't get me wrong, the guy's a bastard. Just when I was coming around to him, he totally tricked Kyoko into believing that Sayaka could be saved... and he didn't even do it to harvest her energy, he just did it so that he could get Madoka to sign the contract. This basically means that Kyoko put up with all of this for nothing, which is pretty cruel. But again, in Kyuubee's mind, it isn't "nothing" if it gives him a source of energy that can keep his planet going for years.
I've written so much already, I wanna make sure I don't drown you guys out. So what are your thoughts on the show? : D
I can't bring myself to do that, so I'm just playing it to try and make them all survive through the end. 