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Post by strikereon on Feb 17, 2011 3:33:56 GMT -5
Hey, just putting it out there in case 2 of you guys want one I just got my closed beta keys for Dragon Age Legends, the promotional facebook rpg from Bioware to promote Dragon Age 2. Apparently there are special unlocks for DA2 if you play this game beforehand anyhow, i got a key for myself and 2 other keys to give to other people, so here they are DLXD-YFVC-VF8T-RZCY DLXD-YFVC-4HV4-VMVK HOW TO REDEEM YOUR BETA KEY: GO TO APPS.FACEBOOK.COM/DRAGONAGELEGENDS/ INSTALL THE FACEBOOK APPLICATION LOGIN OR CREATE AN EA ACCOUNT ENTER YOUR BETA KEY
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Post by strikereon on Feb 22, 2011 21:50:20 GMT -5
May as well rename this to a Dragon Age thread or something, anyways Bioware just released their demo for Dragon Age II, again with unlocks possible depending on if you complete the demo, link it to your EA account, and if there are 1,000,000 linked up downloads of the demo according to them the demo should be available to consoles and PCs anyway, more info here dragonage.bioware.com/da2/demo/
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Post by chzrm3 on Mar 7, 2011 0:21:01 GMT -5
Yeah, I'm so pumped for DA2. I played the demo through about 7 times - once with each possible weaponset, then a couple more times to decide which class I want my first playthrough to be as.
I ended up deciding on a femHawke warrior. I actually think I can make Hawke look like lightning, and I would've gone mage but I like Bethany a lot more than Carver, so I'll go warrior (which works for lightning anyway... but really mage would've been so perfect @_@).
My second playthrough's gonna be a male mage, and I'm gonna try to get him to look the way he does in that high-res cutscene where he's fighting against that crazy demon thing. The default hawke kind of looks like that, but his beard's full spartan and he's a little older, so I'll see if I can get it just right.
Then I'll play it through 50 million more times and who knows what those characters will be, uuugh I just can't wait.
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ceredron
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Post by ceredron on Mar 7, 2011 12:35:22 GMT -5
I'm probably picking this up as soon as it's torrentable. I've heard mixed reviews, but I loved the first one so I can't help but pick this one up as well.
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Post by chzrm3 on Mar 7, 2011 14:50:21 GMT -5
Haha, yeah from what I hear it's the people who loved DA:O who are really being left out in the cold. In the same way that Mass Effect 2 was less of an rpg and more of a shooter, Dragon Age 2 is less of an RPG and more of an action game.
It's also really linear, apparently. Whereas in the first one you could really go dungeon diving, especially in the deep roads, basically every environment in DA2 is one straight path, with the occasional small deviation for a chest or something that's not even trying to hide itself.
That said, I'm excited, because I've been wanting a true action rpg for a while. There's a lot of games that try, but they're either lacking on the story or the combat. So DA2 is gonna be scratching an itch I've had since, god, Majora's Mask?
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ceredron
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Post by ceredron on Mar 7, 2011 15:49:20 GMT -5
I hate when devs think that the only way to have a good action rpg is to have the game more linear. It's good that they're going to make the combat more interesting and dynamic, but I'm honestly saddened by rpgs that sort of masquerade as rpg in name only... I'd love a huge open world action rpg. I understand the complexity required to make such an open world actual, but dammit I want quests AND great action. I want a new-age Morrowind, basically, but with the control scheme of Fable or something.
I know that Gothic 3, had it had more time in development and less outside influence, would have come close, but I really don't like the way games, especially the rpg genre, are heading these days. It's like playing Gears of War with a few more weapons and abilities, but I miss the open world.
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Post by chzrm3 on Mar 7, 2011 16:56:24 GMT -5
Yeah, that's why I'm dying for Skyrim. IT seems like so few rpgs these days give you an actual world to play around in, but you know Bethesda will deliver, and my god once the modding community gets going it'll be great. I still play Morrowinds every now and then, and I still play Oblivion every once in a while, so I'm really excited.
And I know what you mean - the original Fable had some really fluid, nice controls for an action rpg. I don't know why Fable 2 gutted it and replaced it with oversimplified melee/ranged combat and a completely different, much less awesome magic system. : \ I haven't even played Fable 3 yet, but from what I've heard the magic's even worse in that. It's too bad, man. I played through the original Fable a bunch of times, I just loved it, but I didn't even get halfway through Fable 2 before stopping, and I'm only gonna buy Fable 3 to see the series through to its end.
You know what actually surprised me that came out recently? Two Worlds 2. It got pretty weak reviews, but I was hungry for an rpg so I picked it up, and it's not half bad. The world is really weird, too - it's like being in the middle east + the savannah of africa. The combat's a little wonky at first but pretty fun once you get into it, and there's tons of shit to explore. The only thing that's bad about it is the character interaction's pretty weak, you really can't talk to that many people and anybody you can talk to has a generic quest for you to do. I don't recommend it if you like really polished games, but it's definitely got a huge world to be explored.
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Post by strikereon on Mar 7, 2011 20:16:16 GMT -5
fortunately (or unfortunately, depends on your opinion on the subject) but game devs are trying to make their games more marketable to the non-hardcore crowd. Making the game more linear, and thus simpler to progress through, is one way of preventing the ever popular line "what the hell do i do next" line. Now i didn't really encounter this question myself in Origins but I could see that happening. Making combat more "actiony" and reducing the difficulty on Normal is another way to draw in the crowds and satisfy the casual players.
dragon age II still has a decent amount of branch offs from what i heard and a fair amount of side quests that lead to new party companions. From what i saw in the demo and interview livecast a few days ago it is entirely possible to skip on getting a few companions and other goodies, so at least the game rewards players who are thorough. However the main story is as you guys said, is pretty linear, there is no searching for the "what next" because it's clearly given to you. But the story seems to be the focal point of the game, and as is with any modern Bioware game to date, this is shaping up to be one hell of a storyteller that'll probably segway into Dragon Age III with another protagonist.
anyway, i'm gonna get this on steam as soon as i have enough money, it'll look pretty sweet when i install the High Res Texture pack.
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ceredron
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Post by ceredron on Mar 7, 2011 22:21:55 GMT -5
Yeah I remember you telling me about two worlds. Eventually when I have time (maybe after the school year is over lol) I'll pick it up and play it. But yeah, you understand when I say that the open world is what I like. I understand the need to cater to the simple masses, but damn I hate when devs assume people are stupid, so they need hand-holding to figure things out. My favorite games are ones that challenge and leave a ton to be learned and explored, like Ninja Gaiden or Morrowind. I think it might just be a result of being a part of the Ocarina of Time generation of gamers, but damn I want my games to challenge my brain while I explore and travel. I want to get lost in a world, not get told a story, because I've been told a million stories but only traveled a few worlds.
I think I'm just a specific type of gamer with specific needs, who doesn't get appeased by what appeases everyone else. That's probably why they left the open world rpgs on the shelf, letting MMOs handle that business, and moved on to simpler-to-design and simpler-to-implement gameplay mechanics, along with worlds that are linear and simpler to build and perfect.
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Post by chzrm3 on Mar 8, 2011 1:16:42 GMT -5
fortunately (or unfortunately, depends on your opinion on the subject) but game devs are trying to make their games more marketable to the non-hardcore crowd. Making the game more linear, and thus simpler to progress through, is one way of preventing the ever popular line "what the hell do i do next" line. Now i didn't really encounter this question myself in Origins but I could see that happening. Making combat more "actiony" and reducing the difficulty on Normal is another way to draw in the crowds and satisfy the casual players. dragon age II still has a decent amount of branch offs from what i heard and a fair amount of side quests that lead to new party companions. From what i saw in the demo and interview livecast a few days ago it is entirely possible to skip on getting a few companions and other goodies, so at least the game rewards players who are thorough. However the main story is as you guys said, is pretty linear, there is no searching for the "what next" because it's clearly given to you. But the story seems to be the focal point of the game, and as is with any modern Bioware game to date, this is shaping up to be one hell of a storyteller that'll probably segway into Dragon Age III with another protagonist. anyway, i'm gonna get this on steam as soon as i have enough money, it'll look pretty sweet when i install the High Res Texture pack. : D Yeah, I'm excited. It's a bittersweet sort of excitement, though, because I love what Dragon Age 2 is all about. It's a game with (hopefully) a great story, awesome characters, and some really slick action rpg combat. I've been dying for another game like that, so I'm really anxious. That said, Origins really was a freaking awesome game, and in a market where you just don't ~get~ games like that anymore, it was really nice. So as much as I'm excited for Dragon Age 2, I really wish Origins didn't have to be sacrificed for DA2 to exist. If you get what I'm saying? Ooh, I like that. And yeah it's a really good point. If I had to guess why, I'd say that giving people a linear game is like giving them a book and saying "here, read this." If it's a good book, they'll enjoy it. If it's a bad book, they won't. On the other hand, giving people an open-ended game is like giving them a sandbox, or a bunch of legos without any instructions on how to put them together, and saying "here, have fun with this." The legos can have the most amazing potential, but if someone doesn't know what to do with them, they'll end up being totally bored. So I guess with a linear game, you're guaranteed to get a return on your investment, whereas with an open ended game it's kind of a crapshoot based on the player's personal investment. BTW, that example may not make any sense at all. I've been drinking brandy with my dad all night (HAHAHA I'M SO OLD WTF?!!?), so I kind of feel like that made sense, but it also might be total nonsense. Incidentally, I was just reading about this - seems like there might be another new rpg coming out that wants to be what we're asking for. : O xbox360.ign.com/articles/115/1153816p1.html
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ceredron
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Post by ceredron on Mar 8, 2011 14:50:19 GMT -5
that link you put out looks fucking awesome. That's exactly the kind of game I've waited for since Morrowind. Just massive open world interaction with solid story lines, but without any sort of obligation to follow any of them. I also really miss social consequences for your actions.
Btw, drinking brandy late at night with old folks does make you old, man. And I understood your lego analogy pretty well - that's exactly what I'm talking about, and it makes me sad that everything is a book instead of a choose-your-own-adventure. Man they don't even make those choose-your-own-adventure books anymore, I don't think. Super lame.
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Post by chzrm3 on Mar 9, 2011 15:24:55 GMT -5
XD, choose your own adventure books were badass. I guess bioware games were kind of the natural progression there - lots of choices, and if you don't like the result just turn back the page/reload the save. : P
This is totally unrelated but one time my brother actually did a "choose your own adventure" thing on an old video game forum we went to, where he'd write a page or two of a story, let people choose the character's reaction based on votes, and then go from there. It ended up lasting for years and everybody was in love with it. It was cool cause he'd have a bunch of options, and one was always incredibly character breaking. Every now and then this option would win and cause a ton of controversy. Like, one time one of the choices was "BRUTALLY MURDER THE PRINCESS", even though the whole story was about protecting her and she was his love interest. So this barely won out, she was killed, and the rest of the story was about him trying to figure out why he'd had this illogical lapse in judgment. It was really well written, and there was actually a thread that someone made called "Revoke the princess's death!" where people raged about her being dead, because they felt like the voting had been rigged.
Totally unrelated, I was just reminded of that because of the choose your own adventure thing. XD
Anyway! I have Dragon Age 2, here are my initial thoughts:
Combat
Rocks! You definitely still need to be tactical to deal with most fights properly. I tried playing through on nightmare my first time, but I couldn't even get up to the ogre at the beginning. I'm gonna need to figure out exactly which builds are ideal for getting through the early stages of the game, since that seems like it's gonna be one of the most challenging stretches. For now, I'm playing through on hard, and almost every fight requires a ton of coordination between your party members, a lot of crowd control and aoe, and a good amount of pausing. It's pretty satisfying. Every now and then, I won't be paying attention and I'll get DESTROYED in a fight, all my guys getting wiped out in a span of like 20 seconds. Then I'll reload, prepare myself and do it properly, and mop up everything without even needing a health potion.
Only thing that blows is the lack of an overhead view. It's really, really annoying. : P Can't tell you how many times I won't even know there are extra guys on the field, because I have to assess situations from a third person view. But I'm getting used to that, so it's allll good.
Mages are still ridiculous, btw. As soon as I got this little elf mage, I've been slaughtering groups in literally 10 seconds, I have her and my sister raining down hell on everyone. I might stop using mages for a little while just for an added challenge, or turn the game back up to nightmare if I'm gonna roll with 2.
Story
MEH. I'm not that far in, but it's already grating me. There's a really nice set-up when you first get to the main city where you essentially pick which guild you wanna be a part of. I was all like "alright, here we go!!!"... and then it skips ahead a year forward and it's like "CONGRATULATIONS, YOU HAVE PLEASED THE GUILD". Then you talk to people and they're like "Hey, Hawke! You really saved my ass on that one mission, I owe ya!" and they do you favors. It's like.... why wasn't I part of this?!?! The beginning stages of a character's growth are some of the most rewarding, and they just got time skipped? wutufu?
The other thing I don't like is that it seems the whole point of the game is to make Hawke's family rich again. They were already rich, then the mom married some mage and ran away to live in the forest with him, and now they aren't rich and they're like ": ( aww I wish we was rich". It's just not nearly as compelling as something like a city elf origin or a dwarven casteless origin, where you're working your way up from next to nothing. And it's not even like the DA:O human/dwarven noble origins, where you had power and lost that. This is literally "I wish we had a bigger house."
I'm hoping the story picks up, but so far I'm five hours in and they've already mentioned that my warden has dealt with the blight. So... that's done, and my warden from DA:O is a legendary hero, which is kinda cool. I hope she makes a cameo. : D
Characters
What the story lacks, the characters definitely make up for. They're all pretty interesting and legitimately likable. The one thing that's a bummer, though, is Hawke. In Mass Effect, Shepard has a consistent tone throughout the game, which is "I'm a badass." So if you pick the paragon options, the renegade options, the neutral or funny options, etc... you're always still a badass, just with different methods of getting things done.
In DA2, it seems that the choices for your Hawke's personality are:
- Blubbering vagina - Trying too hard to be funny - Being a total douche
The other problem is that it makes Hawke seem really bipolar. Y'know, when Shepard would choose a paragon conversation option first, and then a renegade option second, it always seemed consistent. Sure, Shep just switched from being nice to being abrasive, but it was believable. Maybe she just got pissed off or something. With Hawke, it honestly makes no sense. This was literally one of my experiences:
...............
Some random elf: Hey, you can't come here!
Hawke *picks a nice option*: Oh, I didn't mean to cause any trouble. I have official business here, so if you'd please let me through, I really appreciate it.
Some random elf: If it's official business, that's fine. What exactly are you doing?
Hawke *picks mean option*: Ask me another question, knife-ears, and I'll gut you like the animal you are.
............
It was like WTF?!?!? Where did that come from? You can't make the 'nice' options completely pansy, and the 'mean' options totally murderous. In ME, Shepard's nice options were 'tough, but reasonable' and the mean options were 'tough, and kind of a jerk'. Either way, the character still made sense, and you could do some pretty wildly different things without it destroying Shep's characterization. Also, there's no 'middle' option in DA2. It's always a 'funny' option, and it usually isn't funny so much as really bad jokes that are totally out of place. (incidentally, one of the best parts of the game so far was when someone had just been killed and I made my character crack a joke about it. One of my party members goes 'not now, Hawke...' and another one rolls his eyes and sighs. I thought that was great. XD)
So all in all, the combat's really good, despite the concerns we had about it being too streamlined. But the story seems pointless right now (I'm pretty sure it'll pick up, though) and I don't like how schizophrenic my character seems.
Still, really enjoying it so far, and I can't wait to tear into it some more tonight. : D
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Post by strikereon on Mar 9, 2011 17:52:10 GMT -5
i'll pick up the game eventually, still don't have 60 bucks yet but it'll come eventually.
I was kinda hoping that with the entire conversation wheel at their disposal that they could have like 6 or 7 different branching dialogue options, ranging from the pansy to absolute-raging-beast-on-dragon-steroids. like make a hawke that can instill the fear of God into all who oppose him, or have a consistent face-stab dialogue option...heh maybe i'm overdoing it. But yeah, surprised to see a bioware writing team that may have dropped the ball on their bread and butter, branching dialogue.
that being said the story may take some time to really pick up. i get the feeling that the serious business won't go down until you get like halfway or even 3/4 through the main storyline. The "First Act" is probably going to be one big setup for the nitty gritty "Middle Act."
I plan on creating a rogue archer first, just because out of all of the classes that i've played in all games that i've played, the archer seems to be the one that intrigues me the most so it's only fair that i continue to do my first playthrough with an archer. Then the rogue dual wielder will be next, cuz that was my favorite setup from Origins.
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Post by chzrm3 on Mar 10, 2011 14:41:45 GMT -5
Hey guys, there's some fascinating nonsense happening right now on the bioware forums. Hopefully this thread won't be deleted when you click on it: social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/141/index/6450160Basically, DA2's gotten a lot of bad reviews from fans, even though game sites are giving it pretty good reviews, so the metacritic score's a 5.2 for users but an 8.3 for review sites. This was making people say that Bioware paid off the review sites, and apparently to counteract that, one of the staffers from Bioware said "It looks like 4chan's raiding metacritic, trying to take us down." So this really caused a shitstorm, HAHAHA. I think the quote from the bioware staffer's since been deleted, as have a bunch of threads. This was one of the few I could even find about the subject, and it's just someone from /v/ explaining why it probably wasn't them. strikereon, yeah I really liked the archer too. I was torn between that or a 2handed warrior, but ended up going for the warrior just because I'd have varric with me soon enough anyway, whereas you don't seem to get a 2h warrior for a while. (I'm 8 hours into the game and the only 2h warrior I have is my own character.) Also, it's kind of a bummer but Hawke is my weakest party member right now. Both of my mages are destroying everything, aveline's almost required in some of the tougher fights, and varric can at least open chests. I probably messed up her build somehow, I went for 2h cc abilities with some defensive options, and it seems like whenever I try to control mobs like that, they just run around me and slaughter my mages. fuuuu
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Post by strikereon on Mar 10, 2011 16:15:14 GMT -5
it really does boil down to how hardcore you are and what you expected from bioware as a whole.
hardcore bioware players know the level of quality that they expect from bioware, given how good Origins was and how good bioware's games are as a whole.
review sites, well i think they are supposed to be an accurate representation for the masses, not just the hardcore players but for those who haven't played Origins or a lot of bioware games in general. Let's face it, the only series' that we care about now from bioware are Dragon Age and Mass Effect. If you didn't play Mass Effect or Origins, then your expectations would be a lot lower.
Anyway, hopefully the dev team will take the remarks from both the community and the rest of the gaming world and try to satisfy both sides in the next game if it really is that lackluster a title. Dragon Age is supposed to be Bioware's flagship series given how Mass Effect will end with Mass Effect 3 and more than likely won't have another trilogy of games. So we can be sure to expect at least a few more games in the series.
I guess we can see this as a "testing the waters" title as Bioware's first foray into "General Gaming" as opposed to what Origins which was "Serious borderline Hardcore"
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